Full transcript

Mandar

Hi everyone. Today we are discussing how change management is critical for companies when they are embarking on the sustainability transformation journey. We are glad to have Rashmi Gogna on this podcast. Rashmi is an experienced business coach dedicated to empowering individuals and organizations to achieve their full potential to drive sustainable growth. She helps organizations integrate environmental and social responsibility into their operations by providing practical solutions and strategies that promote long-term sustainability for profitability and positive societal impact.

Hi, Rashmi.

Rashmi:

Hi, Mandar.

Mandar

How are you?

Rashmi:

I’m doing well. How are you today?

Mandar

Good. Rashmi, thanks for joining in welcome to the Position Zero podcast.

Rashmi:

Well, the pleasure is all mine. Thank you for having me.

Mandar:

Great. Rashmi, sustainable development is pretty focused area for many countries. Obviously on the global agenda it is one of the top trending topic, and then it is extremely important for the humanity and for the for the industry to start working on climate change. The Paris Agreement, United Nations SDGs you know, has set the framework or set the strategic goal in front of the world to reduce the global warming, keep within 1.5 degrees Celsius. So, looking at these agendas, and the goal that we have, we are actually faced with what I call as a twin challenge. One is protecting the environment and while do that, improving and sustaining the good conditions for the people. So right. With this twin challenge in mind, right. Organizations are going through multiple challenges in their journey on towards sustainability they need to design, develop, roll out, repurpose their product, keeping sustainability in mind. So it’s a big, big change for many companies. And you coming from the change management background, it would be a great conversation for our audience to listen to your thoughts, understand what you think, how organizations can handle this change. What are the best practices. So we would like to hear from you on this topic.

Rashmi:

Yeah, sure. Mandar you know, I mean, you were mentioning about the Paris agreement and you know, where we are regarding the, you know, the aims and the goals that have been set. We are actually 45% behind based on what the companies globally are doing at this point. We are still set to increase by 10% in our you know gas emissions. So we do have a big target ahead, and that means you know, all of us in every part of the globe need to work, you know, in a unified manner to be able to achieve all the goals that have been set there. So you are very right that you know, it is about change. It is about doing things differently than what we have been doing so far. And how do we reach there?

How do we go there? So, you know, I mean, and, and, and what is the different frameworks? And, and I think more than before even we go into frameworks of change, it’s important to really have a sustainability thinking before, you know, one can even adapt to or apply any of the frameworks, right? And one of the important things is the, you know, the change is to actually have systems thinking, because we think that what we are doing is not impacting the whole world. But, you know, when you really organizations apply this open systems thinking, knowing that, you know, maybe my role is one, and your role is one, is it equal to two in terms of impact, but it may not be right. The impact might be like three if you are doing things right.

So, and if you’re doing things wrong, that one and one can even make minus one. So having a open systems thinking towards change is a, a very, very important step. And to, to understand that what you do is not only limited to the impact that in that particular area, it has a much bigger and a much greater impact if you look at the whole picture. So I would say that would be the first of you know, understanding the impact of your action or any company, any organization for them to understand the impact of their action. And then, of course, right, one can apply so many different you know, frameworks in tandem. Like no one framework is enough, but what is essential at this point is to really, for organizations and companies to say, okay, we need to take a step back. We need to have a moment of reflection because what we are doing now is not sustainable. Right? And if that is the case, then what is it that we need to do? And that cannot happen if it is always going to be business as usual. If every day you’re going to get up and do the same thing, and the same thing and the same thing, and say that you want change, that will not happen.

Mandar:

Rashmi, how organizations should start addressing this change management with respect to the sustainability transformation, shall they start from the top down manner? How do they, you know, get people along with them to really change the way they have been working? They have been operating some of the you know, various aspects of, of daily operations, my daily work people not necessarily think sustainability inherently. So how do we, how do we, how should organizations begin their journey on adopting this change?

Rashmi:

So again, I would just come back to this, you know, to the systems thinking and to understanding that to change anything, any process, any output. It is not only about you know, saying that, okay, now we will change our product, or I will, we will change the input. One also has to change the thinking behind su you know, sustainable action. So if, if you are looking at the long term sustainability of different businesses and, and say sustainability of this earth right in itself, the mindset has to change from all aspects. It could be top down, that would work. It could be something that the company or executives feel strongly as a group that would work. So it’s not like one point of start. I think the idea has to be first acceptance that yes, there has to be a change, there has to be something that needs to be done differently. And that could come from any level. Sometimes the best ideas come from the middle or from the, you know, from the bottom. So if, if a company has a culture of where all voices are heard, where all ideas are open that company would definitely be much more ahead in adapting to what the inherent risks might be in the environment.

Mandar:

Right. it is also extremely critical for to get a buy-in from various stakeholders, maybe from within the organization, from outside the organization, societies regulatory agencies. So, yes. The change applies to all stakeholders. So are there any specific guidance you would like to talk about with respect to engaging on these stakeholders?

Rashmi:

Most certainly because change will not happen if there’s resistance from any part of the system. So the first step is how do you influence the different stakeholders? What is the communication? Because anything that you make it like you know, like a rule or without the buy-in from the different parties who are affected by, by that that that will not be sustainable, that will not last. So really the, you know, the steps have to be small, adaptable steps with complete transparent communication, because that’s the only way to influence the different parts of the company or the different parts of an organization, or even inter-organization collaborations.

Mandar:

Right. So it’s essentially an at review process, you’re saying, where you, you, you know, basically deploy small chunk of changes, reassess again, learn from that redeploy. Is that the process that would work you know, while you’re adopting the change?

Rashmi:

Yeah, I mean, if, if we take anything from biology or if we look at the adaptation that has happened, you know, as we have grown as humanity, any change that has been too drastic has not worked, like that adaptation cannot survive. Also, if you don’t adapt, you cannot survive. But any adaptation that happens in small bite sizes, in a very consistent, that is the key to survival. And I think companies and organizations are picking on that, you know, the bio rule that we have of you know, in, in how we humanity has adapted and has survived.

Mandar:

Particularly with respect to sustainability. Right. There are you know, there are many things that organizations would need to re-look at, re-engineer, redesign, rewire themselves the way they operate. Yeah. do you believe, you know, how do you have a sort of, you know, typical barriers that organizations would face during this transformation, during this journey? You know, and how do they come over those barriers? For example, there could be, you know, financial related barriers or, or the culture of the organization that might be a barrier. So, so what are the barriers you believe organizations may face on their sustainability journey, and how do they come over this?

Rashmi:

So, in my opinion, I think the biggest challenge towards sustainability is the vision of how something new and different is going to work. And also the challenges in terms of changing the whole system. Like if a certain factory is used to making a certain product, which is high water intensive, or needs a lot of power and energy for, you know, making their products, how do you transition? How do you change to something that could go towards net zero, for example? So, so A is you know, having the vision B is to see how to make that vision possible, taking into account very practical issues of you know, it, because these in some industries are very heavy in, in, you know, in terms of their investment in their manufacturing processes. So how do you transition to something new and different?

And, and then again, it just comes down to do it slowly. Do it one by one, do it bit by bit because anything too drastic or too big is not going to work. So it’s a, about having the vision B about you know, seeing the long-term risk of how you are operating and c making changes bit by bit you know, making it part of your p and l, making it part of your balance sheet. So any new equipment that is being made any new process enhancement that is coming up that, you know, is keeping in with that vision that you have of going towards net zero.

Mandar:

Any, any tools, any methodologies, any frameworks? You talked about framework briefly in the beginning, and you said there are many, but any things specific that you think would help organizations on their sustainability journey?

Rashmi:

Yeah. So there are many frameworks Mandar, like the low change management model, or the Kotter’s eight, eight step change model. But I really feel like the Bridges transition model which was developed by William Bridge you know, it, it, it is quite complete because it also takes into account the psychological and the emotional aspects of change. Any change, you know, has some form of an ending because the way you’ve been doing things that has to come to a stop, and that stop does leave to a, to a period of feeling of loss. It may be just loss in the way you’ve been just doing things which is sustainable or not sustainable, but it is a loss. So, if, if you look at the Bridges transition model, it, you know, it says that you have to be cognizant of say, you know, the ending, you have to give space to understand that ending, which they call the transitional period.

And only then the vision of something new or different that you have started putting in action will slowly and consistently come true. So it recognizes that individual experiences, you know, all individuals experience a period of loss and uncertainty during the transition. And you know, it provides, so the management needs to provide guidance. The, the, the leadership needs to provide guidance on helping the system or the people affected by that system to navigate these stages effectively, to hold that, that anxiety, to manage that anxiety. Because if, if it is done with having cognizance of how each and every change in the system is affecting the people and addressing their anxieties related to that, then the change is going to be much more successful. And, and that comes to, you know, all how you engage, because all stakeholders, right. Because any change creates a bit of anxiety in the system, even if it is for the greater good.

Mandar:

What kind of capabilities organizations need to build to handle such kind of a change and such kind of a transformation?

Rashmi:

It is I think first firstly to, for, for organizations, they need to have an idea or an idea of what is the risk to the business. So first, you know, even if at this point everything is going smooth, everything is going well, but did we know that how covid would affect so many different businesses and organizations? So I think the first step is to have that cognizance of the possible risks that might exist in the business, to be able to pre predict it, to be able to stay ahead of that change that could suddenly impact an organization. So I think that, that thought leadership is very important in a, in an organization to be able to assess, to be able to, and yet stay rooted in reality. The second thing is, I think enhancing communication systems. Because most often the changes fail if there is no buy-in from all a, the people who are working within the, the organization or, or there is no buy-in from, you know, other stakeholders along the supply chain. So, transparent communication, which is authentic, is something that is very important. And I think companies really need to work actively to enhance that and to enable that.

And of course, you know, education, training you know, having, having correct data to be able to manage what exactly are the risks, what is it, what are the different steps that need to be, you know, put in place, but Absolutely. Yeah. But overall, I would say that you know, companies need to acknowledge and not stay in denial of what we all need to do together to reach the aim of net zero to reach the aim of 1.5 degrees.

Mandar:

I completely agree with you on the communication side where, you know, many times employees are looking for the information that what my organization is doing on these lines, they hear the news, they read in various articles you know, the, the actions that other companies are taking. So they’re very keen to understand what my company is doing on these lines. And having that transparent communication with, with your people as well as other stakeholders is very critical to tell people what is coming and as well as what currently is happening within your organization on these lines.

Rashmi:

True. Yes.

No, I was just saying that you know the need of every human being is to be heard, to be listened to, and to you know, to have that space that they have been consulted or they have been their thoughts and ideas and feelings have been taken into account. So that communication, that place that respect and dignity across all, you know, throughout all the different levels of working is it can, can really like, be transformational for a company to, if, if they can really, you know put it in place.

Mandar:

I’m hearing these days you know, a new designation called Sustainability Change Maker. Do you, do you believe you know, this role plays you know, this particular, you know role in the organization plays important aspect with, with respect to adopting the change?

Rashmi:

Absolutely. I think it’s, it’s great that such a thing, such a job description exists now because you know, as organizations are evolving, as our work systems are evolving, we are seeing different you know, the rate of change that’s happening in our environment to keep up with that. If, if you are, you’ve been assigned to do a certain task of, say, like if you’re in charge of the finance, or if you’re in charge of HR, you are doing functions related to that, you’re not really clued in or you’re not really thinking about the long-term sustainability of the business, or how is it, how is the business going to transition to a newer, better model? So having a change, sustainability change maker in a company I think allows that company to have a center or a space where somebody is driving that. So it doesn’t mean that that maker is doing everything, but at least there is a point of thought from a person who is day in and day out thinking about that business, about how, what are the risks associated in, you know in that business. How can the business adapt to that change? So I think it’s a wonderful step forward in different organizations.

Mandar:

Yeah. And it emphasizes on the importance of that role as well as, you know, the, the focus the organization is having in, in bringing the change.

Rashmi:

Absolutely. That means that the, the organizations really, it cares about sustainability, it cares to see how they can adapt. And that’s really the first step of sustainability thinking.

Mandar:

Rashmi, it has been really pleasure talking to you. I’m confident our audience would find this conversation very insightful. So thanks for being there on the, on the podcast.

Rashmi:

Thank you, Mandar. It has been a pleasure.