Full transcript

Mandar (00:05):

Hello everyone. Welcome to PositionZero stubbornly optimistic about the net zero.

In this episode, Octavia Overholser is joining me to discuss barriers various companies face during their sustainability journey. Octavia Overholser has over 30 years of general management experience leading and developing teams in the fashion and outlet industry. She has worked for brands such as Bottega Veneta, Polo Ralph Lauren, Calvin Klein, Donna Karan, Levi’s, Value Retail (The Bicester Collection) and VIA Outlets. Octavia is passionate about ESG and the circular economy. She is on the Board of Advisors at worldsensorium.com and is a Senior Advisor for VECTRA International, whose mission is to enable positive and responsible business impact.

Hi, Octavia.

Octavia (01:02):

Hello Mandar.

Mandar (01:05):

Hi. Thank you for joining me on this podcast.

Octavia (01:08):

Thank you for inviting me.

Mandar (01:13):

I was reading recently one article published by BCG and MIT. There was interesting set of statistics which I came across. The report talks about the knowing and doing gap. So what it says is, among the executives that they surveyed, 90% of executives find sustainability to be important. However, only 60% of the companies incorporate sustainability in their strategy; going on the report also says, merely 25% have sustainability incorporated in their business model. So, so while there are companies like Unilever, Nestle, Ikea, some of the, you know, very known brands are doing great progress. I also come across customers and organisations that I speak to. They’re struggling. They’re struggling to take off on the sustainability journey. So, so in your opinion, Octavia, what are the barriers that, that you see companies are facing while they’re take on this journey?

Octavia (02:21):

Well, I think there are, there are three kind of buckets of barriers. So one is in some companies and a lack of accountability, I would say in terms of a focus from the senior management, from CEOs and from investors focusing on sustainability. I think another big barrier that many companies have and which could explain why only 25% are including it in, in their business models, is because a lot of companies don’t know what their current state is in terms of sustainability. And, you know, the metrics are very confusing and there are no standardized metrics. So it’s, it’s challenging to be able to plan for the future when you’re not quite sure where you are today. And then I think the third one would be around generally a, a lack of communication and education around sustainability. And that, I believe is for companies and people. So I think all of these barriers have big opportunities also that we can discuss.

Mandar (03:32):

Right, right. So the first one, right. Do you do, would you like to get into a little bit more details? For example, when you say investors and the management, not having the focus. So what do you mean by that and how do, how do they, how do they bring that?

Octavia (03:50):

I think that we know today that with the way things are going and with resources getting scarcer and scarcer and more expensive it will really be a challenge for companies, you know, to be resilient and to continue existing in 50 plus years. So I think investors, CEOs and the management need to plan for the future and make sure that their company is resilient. And one of the ways to do that, which is great opportunity, is to adapt a triple bottom line. So really focusing on not just the financial side of the business, but also the societal and the environmental. So you’re impacting people as well as the planet and profit. So I think going forward, companies will really have to manage all three in order to make sure that, that they have a sustainable business in the future. And in order to do that, you, they really need to embed sustainability in everything that they do.

It shouldn’t be a silo on the side. It really needs to be, you know, built into the design of products. It needs to be involved, you know, embed in the company culture. And that needs to come from, you know, the top management. I think another thing that can help to make that happen is if you include sustainability goals in people’s KPIs, including the senior management. And so their personal goals are based on sustainability for, for some of it, and that that also impacts their bonuses, and so gives them also a financial incentive to make sure that the company moves forward.

Mandar (05:31):

Yes, yes. I agree completely. Some of the things which I also come across you know, how do they, how do they structure their organisation, right? Who drives sustainability? And there are, there are several models you know, some employ very large central team and then various business units sort of, you know, reporting to them. Some employ small central team or lean central team you can say. And, and, and then they deploy their individual representatives or SPOCs into the BUs. So, so there are pros and cons onto this different models, but I think having a very clear structure on the accountability and mapping that into your role and responsibilities and even your performance measurement criteria would be a good start where people can then actually start looking at you know they can actually have the measure measurement criteria and can set up goals, objectives while they’re trying to drive various projects under the sustainability. I completely agree with you.

Octavia (06:42):

Exactly. that indeed I think it is very important that, and especially in larger companies, there are larger structures, as you say, in smaller companies where it might not be possible. You know, there are alternatives. So, you know, a smaller SME might want to use a consultant or an external, you know, company to, to get help to, to help them set up the action plans and the rules and responsibilities as you mentioned, and to help them embed the sustainability and the company culture; cause not all companies can afford to have a team, obviously in-house, but it’s more than you really need the cultural mind shift amongst the management team to accept and adopt sustainability practices.

Mandar (07:33):

Right, right. Also in some of my conversations, I I also realised that people relating their roles with the vision and the mission of the company their ability to say, okay, I work in sales, I work in marketing, I work in finance. How do I contribute? How do I really align myself to these roles in the organisation? So I think that is also an important aspect of bringing that clarity, focus and the, and the accountability that you mentioned.

Octavia (08:12):

Yes, because I think in any, you know, bringing sustainability into a company and really, you know, embedding it in the culture involves quite a bit of change management because it’s doing something differently from the way people have done things before. And whenever there’s any kind of, you know, change management or, or big cultural changes within a company, what’s the most important obviously is the people. And, you know, everybody wants to know what does it mean for me because everybody wants to succeed and, and fear of change is often related to a fear of failure. And so I think, you know, going back to what you said earlier about the roles and responsibilities, it’s very important that people understand why they need the change, what the change is going to mean for them, how is it communicated and you know, what they, what they need to be doing differently in the future going forward, which also, you know, will impact their KPIs.

Mandar (09:12):

Talking about communication, I think one of the points that you mentioned is lack of communication and education around sustainability. So, so how do you, how do you see that you know, companies are tackling, or what are the opportunities to address those barriers?

Octavia (09:31):

Yes. Well, I think in terms of education, there are some simple, you know, trainings that can be done, you know, i.e. some policies that be become created such as, you know, no plastic in the offices you know, no plastic bottles, et cetera. Reusable coffee cups. So there are some things that can be done in terms of just the, the everyday, you know, turning off the printer at the end of the night, printing out black and white, double-sided, putting actually a code on the printer so people can’t just, you know, keep printing. They actually have to go to the printer and, and pick up their, their printouts. So there are some things that can be done from that respect. I think also it’s a lot about communication. So if people understand again, what the goals are and then they understand how their work impacts those you know, they will learn.

Also, it’s a learning curve for everybody in the world right now, honestly. And I think, you know, an, an important point in terms of the communication and the education is transparency and transparency about achievements and also transparency on setbacks, because not everything always goes, you know, the way we plan. And so I think it’s important, you know, for people to learn, try things, learn from their mistakes and improve on them. And in some cases, again, like with SMEs, they might not have an HR staff who can help put together a training program. So, you know, companies might want to just outsource it and, you know, use a professional to help them train the staff and and take it from there.

Mandar (11:12):

I think some basic understanding of sustainability, you know, various aspects of that and what what does that really mean to my company, my organisation is very important for me to get involved into a larger picture. You talked about transparency, very critical, very important. Yeah, so one of the interesting aspects that I have seen, while working with one of the customers is they published a lot of stories success stories on their internal portal for employees to understand you know, how they’re contributing to larger cause the steps that are, they’re, that they are taking in various plants at various locations. You know, in fact you know, they also opened up an idea box, an idea box where people can, as and when they are getting educated, they’re learning, they’re getting ideas, they’re also want to contribute in different ways. So they started, you know, putting those ideas into that online ideas, idea box portal where people can then start owning those because when ideas are coming from the from the ground up, right, there is very high probability that people will become advocate and then, then they themselves start implementing them effectively.

Octavia (12:37):

Yes, I love the idea of an idea box portal. I’m a big believer in bringing different people together, getting different ideas, brainstorming. And so because one idea can lead to another, can lead to another, and as you say this way, it really gets people from all levels of the organisation involved and caring and wanting to, to make a difference. And there’s nothing better, I think, in a company than when you do have an idea and it does get implemented and it’s successful. But not everything always is successful. And that’s where I think, you know, people shouldn’t be nervous about giving ideas because one idea can lead to another. And so everybody has lots of great ideas and right now also just small things, you know, can really help make a difference if lots of people just do small things to make a difference.

Mandar (13:29):

Yes.

You also mentioned about transparency, right? So one of the important thing which I feel that people when they want their company to be transparent and bring forward setbacks as equally as they bring forward you know, success stories is to, is to make sure that, you know there is no greenwashing happening because people will get you know, they wouldn’t be participating in the, in the programs as you know actively as as and when they start seeing you know, the greenwashing and the stories that they hear in newspaper. So how, how do you think companies come or this greenwashing challenge while, you know, they are trying to put together a culture within the organization?

Octavia (14:25):

Hmm. I was actually just reading an article where quite a few of the larger companies are creating greenwashing committees internally with more of a cross-functional you know, group involved as opposed just to the marketing team. And that is really, you know, with all the new legislation that’s coming in the EU to make sure that they don’t want to be perceived from the external world, but as you say, also internally with their own employees to be greenwashing because they need to remain credible. And I think there’s, there’s a fine line between greenwashing and Green Hushing because a lot of companies, you know, will say that they’re doing a lot of things, but there are companies who are doing things who don’t want to say it because they’re worried that they will be considered to be greenwashing. And so I think it’s more about celebrating small successes, and I think it’s very important within companies, we’re often working so hard and, you know, the day-to-day is so fast paced that we forget to celebrate small successes.

And I think that’s, that’s really essential to keep motivation up as well. And to keep people, you know, energized and wanting to, to proceed and, and move forward. And so I think transparency comes with really being able to celebrate the success, but at the same time, you know, say, okay, what we learned having done this is x, y, z because nothing is ever perfect, right? So everything can always be improved. So I think it’s important to, with every success, look at, we want to do this again because it was successful, but how can we improve on it next time? And that needs to be a clear communication as well across the company.

Mandar (16:14):

You also mentioned and talked about different companies of different sizes may have different needs. So do you see different set of barriers in large organisations compared to small organisation, small or mid-sized organisations? And how do they tackle those barriers differently? If there is any difference?

Octavia (16:41):

I think that there definitely will, depending on where the company is based. But you know, in, in Europe as an example there are a lot of, you know, legislation coming through that will impact larger companies first. But then with time also, you know, the SMEs as well. So for right now it’s, it’s more about the, you know, obviously the legislation’s impacting the, the ones that will have the biggest impact on the, on the environment and society. But, and again, I think the larger companies usually have you know, more manpower that they can put behind it. And that’s where I think that, you know, but they often do also outsource. And I think that that’s where, especially for, for smaller companies you know, many, many consultants or there are many E s G consultants out there who work, you know, on a project basis and so can help them, you know, really break down their plans into chunks and then, you know, tackle them one at a time. Because not everybody can do everything all at once and nobody should do everything all at once. Companies really need to evaluate what will have the biggest impact on their particular business and then see how they can work on that and, you know, prioritize. And again, I think that’s, that’s very important is setting the priorities, setting the clear goals and responsibilities no matter the size of the company. And then depending on the size, getting, you know, the support you need to be able to make those changes happen.

Mandar (18:27):

A quick note for our listeners, thank you for tuning into position zero, stubbornly optimistic about the net zero. I’m your host Mandar Bhagwat. We hope this episode has provided you with valuable insights and inspiration to make this wish to more sustainable lifestyle. To learn more about similar inspirational stories from the change makers and the business leaders, please visit positionzero.earth.

Concluding this conversation. What messages do you have for companies who are in this journey?

Octavia (19:07):

I would say that for all senior management, it’s really important that they walk the talk. So I think, you know, if they don’t, the message will not get in bed, the culture will not change. It is very important that people really start to take sustainability seriously and especially that they understand the importance of, you know, having a, a triple bottom line for the future of their company. So walking the talk, I would say is, is essential. You know, communication is so important in every aspect of our lives and again, you know, transparency is a very, very large part of that. And so we need to inform people of where we are on the journey and again, you know, the positives and the negatives but that we’re all in it together and we’re all trying to make a, a positive difference for the future.

Mandar (20:18):

Octavia, it has been really pleasure to have you on the podcast. It was a great conversation. Thanks for your time.

Octavia (20:24):

Thank you Mandar. I really appreciate it. Happy to have been here.

Mandar (20:30):

Thank you. Have a pleasure day.

Octavia (20:32):

Thank you. Thanks a lot. Take care. Bye-Bye. Yep, bye.